Skagit Lines

[Speybandit]

I have a Greys GRXI+ 13ft 8wt rod paired with a Phleuger Trion 11/12 reel. The line is a Skagit Flight 500grain with a 12ft T8 sinktip. In your opinion would this be on the light side of the grain window, in the middle etc? If it was considered light how would I alter that - with a cheater? Would this be the way to experiment? Your comments would be appreciated.
Cheers
Chris

[TieFlier]

According to rio's website you are on the lighter side of the spectrum. If you wanted to increase the grain weight of the skagit line you could add a cheater, but this would cause a couple of unwanted things. First it would lengthen your skagit head and would change your casting dynamic. Second skagit flight heads are tapered. A cheater may not conform nicely to the taper of the head and could create some messy casting conditions as a thinner taper would suddenly hit thick line.

If you are concerned that this set-up is too light for your rod there are a few other options you can use. You could try increasing the weight of your sinking tip. I cast 12' of T-18 with a 475 grain skagit short. The heavier sink tip helps load my rod as well as the head. I'm not saying use T-18 but you could step up to T-14 or something heavier than the T-8. If thats not to your liking you can try speeding up your casting stroke a tad. This will help load the rod a little more deeply with the lighter line. If you are going to try this make sure your motion and line control are fairly good. If you aren't too confident with line control I wouldn't speed up too much as this can be dangerous if your set-up is not good. Lastly you can get a heavier skagit head. Some fly shops will have a 'mega pack' of skagit flight heads that they will lend out for you to try with your rod.

Hope this helps

[btree]

Ya, I don't know about your rod in particular, but most 8wts seem to take a 500 to 600 grain load for a skagit.

Have a look at the three documents here in this link. The first document explains the dynamics of spey lines. The next two give grain windows for common spey rods.

http://www.speyborn.com/speyborn_2011_005.htm

The links may be broken since I think Simon is not working on his site much, but TieFlier is right, the Rio recommendation, which is one of the links I mentioned, says that the "A" skagit line is a 500 grain, and the "B" skagit line is 550 grain, though I'm sure you could go to 600 without any issues as long as you take it slow.

I'm curious, are you having casting issues with the 500 grain line?
I assume that the line is very castable, but that you are not fully satisfied with it's performance?

I've heard and seen a few good things about the skagit flight this winter! Nearly made me think about getting back into skagit...

[SalaR]

First of all the Grey's rod you have isn't designed to master Skagit casts..it will do the job ok but not excell///I know the rod. As TieFlier said your grain window is much larger for that rod...I would suggest to use a less dramatic line system such as what you have in the Flight but increase the tip length by at least 5 feet. There are many ways to get your fly down besides Skagit...That rod will handle a fast sink Scandanavian line very well,head length from 37-45 feet plus Poly tip and tippet...grain weight I would suggest wold be from 36-40 grams(555-620 grains)...what are you going to be using it for?
C

[SalaR]

500 grains won't load the rod deeply enough to feel satisfied...that rod is designed for longer bellied lines and mid belly...so,if you have a Greys line for an 8wt you entire head might weigh in at 650...at least...the 13' Snowbee 8/9 really likes 650 and up...so I would suspect that the Greys would also like that similar spec.
C

Ya, I don't know about your rod in particular, but most 8wts seem to take a 500 to 600 grain load for a skagit.

Have a look at the three documents here in this link. The first document explains the dynamics of spey lines. The next two give grain windows for common spey rods.

http://www.speyborn.com/speyborn_2011_005.htm

The links may be broken since I think Simon is not working on his site much, but TieFlier is right, the Rio recommendation, which is one of the links I mentioned, says that the "A" skagit line is a 500 grain, and the "B" skagit line is 550 grain, though I'm sure you could go to 600 without any issues as long as you take it slow.

I'm curious, are you having casting issues with the 500 grain line?
I assume that the line is very castable, but that you are not fully satisfied with it's performance?

[btree]

Hey, good to see you're back online from time to time there C.

Sounds like this rod is similar to the snowbee line of spey rods, not really a skagit rod for the beginner, but certainly capable of awesome work when figured out. Must be hard to convince people to get a mid-belly line when skagit's are so popular out west. I for one still love the 2D line, even though I chopped it back 12 feet - not sure that was the best move. Probably should have only cut it back 6-8ft, but it works for me just fine. If I'm not waded out past mid-thigh, it's a very relaxing line to cast with nearly all the head out past the tip, and if things get tight and treed in, then I just choke up on the head and have to satisfy myself with 60-70 ft casts - oh darn But I'm really looking forward to one day investing in some more serious skandi heads to cover those tight spots.

[TieFlier]

Part of what becomes your preferred style is really influenced by what you start with. The set-up you have will work fine if you keep working at it. If you want to switch things up and try other line weights or styles its your call. It may lead to spending more money, you might end up with a pile of lines and you might find exactly what you want. It also may lead to you trying so many different lines and styles that you never get around to actually fishing! If it were me I would keep practicing with what you have, learn how to cast that set-up. If you can manage a cast of 50' then you can catch fish. Don't be too over obsessed with casting distance as a large percentage of fish are caught close to shore.

Practice technique and maybe get some lessons then you can make up your mind on whether or not you need to make a line change. The line you have matches the rod according to the manufacturer, and although there are many other matches possible, the one you have will work. If the question is fishability then you have no problems. If you want the perfect set-up then you have some adjusting to do.

[btree]

Well put there TieFlier - I've managed to acheive more than fishable distances on my 7/8wt spey with everything from a single hander 8wt floater (~300 grain head), through a 360 grain skandi, a 555 grain short-mid belly spey line and even a 550 grain skagit. It takes a bit of time to get things figured out, especially the limitiations of one's abilities combined with the line/rod combo, but it's hard to not make a fishable cast with a 12-14ft rod. I mean if you just flop out the head of any short spey line from skagit to short-mid belly, that's 25-55ft of line, plus a 10-15ft sink tip or leader... all in all that's a conservative 50-70ft of line from reel to fly if you have ~5ft of tippet on the end of what you got in the water.

That's more than fishable!!!

But if you want to make artful casts to pin-point targets, then that takes time on the water and a patient approach which cannot be solved by dozens of new lines, though perhaps one or two new lines might help hehehehe

Put in a couple hundred patient hours of casting with what you have, then decide... it's amazing what abilities emerge after a few solid 8 hour days of casting one set up. I've had fun with both over and under lining rods, but it's all about patience, practice and realizing the limits of one's abilities. For most all of us, nearly any combo of rod and line will have the potential to outperform even our wildest dreams of distance and accuracy merely because our abilities are a just shade under world class

- Speybandit - if you find the line too light, you might want to try skandi style casts - ie. single spey touch and go with a slightly longer tip as previously advised, or even under handed casts, though certainly moderate distance should be achievable with the usual water loaded skagit casts, but you might feel that things are more tip oriented rather than loaded into the butt.

Certainly I would look into what SalaR had to say and perhaps try to borrow/tryout a midbelly spey line. I think there's one for sale for 50 bucks on the classified section...

[Speybandit]

Thanks Tieflyer that really helps me to understand the dynamics of the line set up and the taper - the great thing is I can change the head at any time if I need to rather than change the tip which would give me a different presentation

[Speybandit]

Btree - I had been told by someone that it may be a bit light but I'm not complaining, just seeking to understand a bit more of the theory and know my parameters. I think it's awesome and with practice will become even more so. Thanks for the link I'll check it out.