Cheaters

[rjb222]

I am in the process of putting together a spey outfit. I am trying to understand cheaters. My plan is to use Rio lines. For cold weather I will get a wind cutter so I can leave the line out and not freeze the guides so much. I will get a Skagit for smaller rivers and versatility. So now my question. the rod I have is a 9wt sage. I have in my possession a shooting head line I used on my single hand rod.This rod is a 9WT. I am wondering if I can build a cheater out of this shooting head it is a full floating shooting head as well.Thanks.

[btree]

Probably could...but it might be best to get a casting lesson, or talk to someone who can analyse your casting stroke/style to see if you need a cheater. I say that mostly because I dont know why cheaters are needed in some cases. I know it has to do with head length to rod lenght ratios, and what you prefer, but there seems to be a range with skagit lines, from 2.5X up to 4X the rod length, some even down to just over 2X, but usually between 2.5X and 3X.

What you could also do with that line is make a floating tip for your skagit line (assuming your head is a floater).

[SalaR]

Typically your #9 single handed line will not weigh enough to use for a cheater...cheaters are normally short stubby sections comparable in dimension to the main Skagit head...as Btree says,it will depend on your rod length and the tips , fly or flies you are using!
The need to use a Windcutter so that the main body/belly can stay outside your rod tip on freezing days is nonsense! Small diameter running lines have much less friction and slide more easily through iced up guides. Ice can be an issue no matter where or what you are fishing...in low clear water conditions I would be more apt to use a Scandanavian head or even a shooting line with heads up to 62 feet. After that length head yuo will need a rod in the 14 plus length to really enforce your will and skills on casting.
Feel the line and slow down!
C

[rjb222]

Thanks guys. I am definitely thinking I am into the right rod length for what I am trying to achieve. It is a 15 foot 9150-4. I definitely need to learn allot. I got the cheater Idea from Sage when I emailed asking their recommendations they said I would need a 7 foot cheater to properly load this rod. There is definitely more to learn about the casting and lining of the double hander than with a single handed.

[btree]

A 15 footer eh?

Wow, that's a long rod for a skagit setup... Not impossible, but certainly not traditional. As far as I know, a ~13ft rod might be more appropriate for a skagit setup, and 15 footers are usually used more for long belly lines...

[rjb222]

I need the length. I injured my knee a couple of years ago and it is still fairly unstable wading in deeper than my upper calf is not safe particularly in faster water my knee locks or gives out. I am doing this to get back on the river. this should give me some line control and open places I never used to be able to fish to me i hope. there will still be places I have to give up but I should still be able to find enough places to enjoy fishing again. My idea to the skagit is there are places on a couple of the smaller rivers where it is not necessary to have as much line out as what a mid or long belly line needs out to load i should be able to use the skagit to my advantage for these situations.

[SalaR]

I certainly understand your need...if the Sage is a fairly new model then you are not going to like the Skagit as much as you anticipate! And from what you indicate a 7' cheater is a pile of weight needed to load that massive stick! Btree is correct in that you might really want to understand your needs . There are not many rivers up in your neck of the woods that need a 15' rod....just the main stem,Nass maybe,nonetheless,it is what you have ...I strongly suggest that you consider a longer bellied line like the Snowbee 2D,available in a multi tip in the grain weights you will need,or the Loop Quatro/Airflo Delta Long with tips,Vision Ace long, CND GPS and Scott Mackenzie's new Shooting head system. These lines are designed for such things and length rods...however.if you do use it for Skagit you will be using many grains ,in the 800 to 1000 range with tips.
How deep do you want to fish? What size flies are you working with? How big are you?
Good luck and keep us informed?
C

[rjb222]

This is a traditional style 9150-4 IIIe #9. I was originally looking for something in a 14 foot but I ran across this as a blank and did some trading and voilà I have this blank to build.There are rivers here I like a floating line and a long leader with a heavy fly this allows me to fish a boulder type run very efficiently with out wrapping and loosing a fly line around one which I have done in the past. Others I like to fish deep with a sinking tip. I also fish the main stem Skeena for sockeye coho and steelhead.I hope to try for Chinook next spring on the Kitimat. I am 6 foot tall was a logger for 35 years so a fairly big boy.

[SalaR]

This is a traditional style 9150-4 IIIe #9. I was originally looking for something in a 14 foot but I ran across this as a blank and did some trading and voilà I have this blank to build.There are rivers here I like a floating line and a long leader with a heavy fly this allows me to fish a boulder type run very efficiently with out wrapping and loosing a fly line around one which I have done in the past. Others I like to fish deep with a sinking tip. I also fish the main stem Skeena for sockeye coho and steelhead.I hope to try for Chinook next spring on the Kitimat. I am 6 foot tall was a logger for 35 years so a fairly big boy.

Awhhhhh,now thats more like it...that is a very big rod,and the grain weights I suggested are the ones you will be working with.Nothing can stop you from loosing a fly line only you! There are 3 lines that come to mind immediately,first is the Snowbee 2D Multitip system in the 10/11 range,this line will get you out quickly and into those rocky areas effectively. The second is either the Loop Quatro or Air Flo Delta Long multitip systems(both the same) and of course the third would be a Skagit 750 or so plus cheaters and so on. But you do have to understand that being a logger for 35 years was one thing,your joints and body are quite something else. And casting that monstrous rod all day will be a battle that will truely take a toll unless lined correctly. IF you watch the dry fly fishers on the Bulkley using long rods many of them actually have a 15' brownie or something similar...the lines are very well matched to the caster,allowing for long deliberate casts and swings,lots of time in between casts.
ALso make sure your reel is heavy enough to balance the rod
C

[rjb222]

Thanks. Yes I realize the boulder run I like to fish is a dangerous place for a fly line. I hook so many fish there that it is too addictive to give up. I fish it nymph style with 15 foot leader and floating line. I weight the flies and work both sides of the boulder into the resting water behind. Yep the line I lost was my fault but I am not willing to give up on a place that produces like this and almost no one else fishes due to the boulders all through the run. Yep a big rod for sure and balacning it is the best way to enjoy the day. I am finding that there is much to learn.Gotta love it.