Small spey vs. Switch rod

[btree]

If you only want to be doing spey casts & river fishing, don't want to fish a skagit and want to choose between a switch rod and a smallish spey rod, which would you go for if you dont plan to do any overhead casting with it?

I figure that if I was going to plan on doing both overhead casts and spey casts, then I'd just do it with a single handed rod.

I'm leaning towards a 6/7 or 7/8 spey to handle what the Island has to offer. I figure that a 6 wt wont be as nice as a 7 or 8wt with all the tube flies I've tied up, nor will it like occasional chums or springs at all, let alone a double digit steelie (if I ever manage to hook one...).

Oh, and I prefer a faster action rod.

My thoughts lean towards these three rods:

Beulah Classic Spey: 11'6" 6/7wt.
Snowbee: 12' 6/7wt
Snowbee: 12'6" 7/8wt


But want to hear a bit more from those that might have both a switch rod and a spey rod since I once had two switch rods on that list.

[SalaR]

Hi Ben...
Having seen and worked a bit with you I would suggest that there are several options for you..but first the Beulah Calssic 6/7 is too soft compared to the other s on the list...the Snowbee 12' and 12'6" Two Handers are true classics in that they are light in hand ,fast action and very tough! I would also suggest that you likely will like the 12'6" better as a rod because of it's versatility. Too often we are overlining our rods and simply can't identify the true abilities of these tools. As an example,I often will fish the Beulah Skagit line(650) with 14' or so of T-14 or other with much ease,especially on the Island Rivers,however,I also recognize that this rod will do this very easily but it is overlines so I can't really identify the smoothness and fun as well. After all it is a 7/8 rated rod for lines in the 24gram or approx 400 grains;so you can see the wide range of versatility! What I suggest is to not re-invent the reel but to re-design your concept and cast more efficiently. Lighten the load to perhaps 550 or so like a friend does and catches plenty of fish and at the end of the day isn't nearly as tired and tested!
We are going to start a program at Nile Creek Fly Shop where we are going to "loan out " rod/lines so casters can really get a feel for good matches... As we all know here in the Pacific North West we are somewhat stuck on SKAGIT! But for those in the KNOW there many more effective ways to fish and be succesful...it is about choice! A fried of mine is wise because he is fishing the Beulah Switch Rod and the Elixir line with sinking polytips and I have to say that he is outfishing most! Smaller heavily weighted flies are the ticket ...how often do we actually land big fish on "SMALL PRESENTATIONS" ,,,I have to say very very often! Another very good option is to consider the Scandanavian style of Spey Casting...I really like the Short Head Spey Lines in all ranges from flaoting to Fast Sink...One of my favorite ways to catch Steelhead is to actually use a Snowbee fast sink Scandanavian Line, it has a 44' head,but don't over line,keep it as it is listed ;these lines really get down and are easy to cast.These are not Skagit lines they are fishing lines! Just as little Francois...he too is a believer! Underhand,short light fast rods!
C

[bthomas]

The 12 foot . , 6/7 Snowbee Torridge is one of my all-time favourite rods . I fish mine every year on the Morice . It can handle fish up to 10-12 lbs with no problem . I line mine with a 6/7 AFS head with poly leaders, and it flies on this rod .

[btree]

Much as I suspected - thanks C. That Tamar is still stuck in my mind, and it also sounds like the Torridge will do the job as well. Now all I have to do is sell my other rod! I've also been mulling over the full-sink or sink-head skandi lines as a replacement for the function of the skagit + heavy tip.

I'd love to do an afternoon for casting the 12' and the 12'6" one day.

[SalaR]

Yeah..the Torridge(12') is pretty sweet... as I was saying it works for us when we think outside the box. I find myself at times wondering what the heck I am doing trying to cast nearly 1000 grains with a fly rod! A more logical idea(did I say Logiccccc) would be to cast smaller heavier flies that have less mass by volume but enough density to cut the effects of water current...thus the age old Idea of thin Bodied Intruders or weighted Single Egg patterns,or even now weighted Tube bodies !
What did we used to use before Skagit lines were introduced by first Rio and Now most line manufacturers! What we actually can do is use our brain a bit more. I remember a few years ago I was with a good friend whom I thad aught to tie Intruders that soon became his passion and go to pattern We were fishing the early season for fresh Summer Run Steelhead in Late May,the water was clear and a bit high...Bill was using a Skagit set-up and I was jsut getting familiar with the early Elixir lines and in fact was using the Torridge...as we went through this great run that typically will produce a fish or Two all we,or should I say Bill, managed was a BUMP..so I immediately went outside the Box and into my Fly Box. Low and Behold...2 lone doublebead head Stoneflies,one Black and the other Tan..I said"pick your poison!" Bill looked at me with a strange look on his face,"Stoneflies!!!!??" He said OK,Black!..I said"lengthen your leader to about 8' and almost Nymph fish . I went back to the top of the run and he went to the middle where he had earlier had the Bump.. Before he had his 3rd swing finished I had a nice Steelhead on that turned out to be about 8 lbs,silver bright and very fiesty....a few water pics and off he went again...this time I suggested that he "HIGH STICK" because that would present the fly differently and more naturally. His rod was the 13' Loop Goran Anderson ,a tool for mant seasons. Also I suggested to not cast to the other side because of line management issues but instead look for structure in the Middle of the Run and work the Stonefly as if it were naturally bouncing about...his fly hadn't traveled 50' before the rod almost was yanked out of his hand...a nice silver Doe about the same size as the other provided some very interesting moments before she went to Hollywood!
Before we got back into the water he looked squarely at me and swore a few choice words...something like this" First you teach me to Spey Cast,then I buy every rod in sight,then you teach me to tie Intruders and I tie every intruder patterns know to man, and now you trick me with Stoneflies so am I also supposed to tie every Stonefly pattern known!??" Yes Bill...that happened to me some time ago...I was on the Dean River fishing the Ross Island area when this old friend approached me and asked for one of my "Dish Towels !"..I looked at him quizically..and he said "one of those damn big flies of yours(Intruders),you see I had been very successful as of late and he hadn't been getting a thing on his famous Stoneflies! So of course I handed him his choice felling totally honoured to be asked by the likes of him. He is the Old MAn of the Dean River '''Jerry Wencel",and if ever you get a chance to sneak a peek into his wonderful Wheatley Fly Boxes all you will find is"big Black weighted Stoneflies"!!
Thinking outside the box is what we need to do to be successful
C

[retreive]

Thank you for these inspiring reports. I am trying to be versatile by having 2 set ups. One would be my first spey St. Croix 7/8 loaded with long belly line that comes with three tips (float, type3 and type 6 I believe)
Now I also acquired Loop yellow in 9 wt so I can handle a bit of a bigger salmon while I am beach fly fishing for salmon on V.Island this summer (God give me health, Time and money) This one i will load with Scagit type line just to be able to shoot little further If I become skilled enough. I will aalso have my 9 wt Sage just to make sure if I lose a line or something God forbid, happens to either of the rods.
Would you think this is a good idea?

[SalaR]

Retreive
As much as I like the Loop yellow series(is that the 14'?)..I might suggest not to use the Skagit off the beaches...it really isn't a good overhead line and will end up causing you more grief than it is worth...your long belly line would be better. If you are able to find a good Scandi or Elixir line for that rod...much easier to overhead and definitely more effective.....
C

[retreive]

this is the 3rd time I am trying to post a reply here. something was wrong with the system.
My Loop Yellow is 13'2" in 9 wt. I did not want to go heavier because it just would not have the justification. rarely i hook into such a powerful fish.
any way I will try to follow your advice and line this rod with traditional line. I guess overhead casting rules when it come to the distance right?
Out of shear curiosity would 13-14 wt singlehand fly line be adequate to 9 wt spey? If you know this relation of course.

[SalaR]

actually a 13wt single handed line would be fine...when you consider that a 9wt. Two Hander can easily manage 650 grains ...a 13 wt single handed line is much lighter than that...and yes a longer bellied line is better for over head compared to a Skagit if it is distance you are trying to comquer. Head lengths in the 40-55' range are fine. I used to use the Hardy Mach 1 Spey lines for overhead work...very nice until they had SA make them...not the same lines!
Also,I really like that rod...it is a fine tool
C

[retreive]

I hope we shall meet while chasing salmon on Vancouver Island. There is always an untold story and nice cold beer in those relaxing summer afternoons. Thanks for all the advise. \
Oh, I almost forgot you would not have a good deal on a traditional spey line in 9 wt? Or maybe double taper single hand fly line in 13 wt? :-)