Material Selection

[phearless]

I am putting this thread up here for all the newer tyers on the site.
In another thread I said you can't tie first rate flies with second rate materials. Or as some have said, crap in, crap out.

I am a firm believer in using only the best materials for every fly I tie.
For instance, when I buy a bag of dyed mallard flank, I will empty it out on a table and separate all the wheat from the chafe. Believe it or not I will usually keep only 12 to 20 feathers from a whole bag. The rest is not worth tying with in my experience.

I don't have much disposable income, but good flies are worth it to me. High quality materials are easier to tie with as well.

Buying feathers I would rather get whole saddle patches or capes and pick them off the skin. Almost always better quality. I do have a fair collection of strung feathers as well, but I throw out a ton of those as well. The strung feathers are usually for costumes and such and the quality is lacking very often. Not consistent at all.

If at all possible I use materials from wild animals, legally procured of course.
These are always of better quality than farm raised animals.
I dye materials myself and have stockpiles of feathers and hair etc.
One day I will use it all. It is great for horse trading as well.

On another slightly different note, when tying make sure you have enough of the material to make the job easier. Don't scrimp on materials. If you need a rib for instance, make sure you have an ample length to wrap on. There is nothing worse than trying to get 5 wraps out of 4 1/2 wraps of tinsel etc. You are much further ahead to snip off the extra 2 inches and have a perfect rib than try to tie it off right where it ends and have a rib that is o.k. or good enough. After every step you should be able to say perfect. If not unwrap that part and do it again. if that is not possible, cut the fly up and start over.

I am speaking from 25 years of tying experience, you may not believe me now, but one day you will look back and remember this and say yup, he was right. I am sure the experienced tiers from our forum will back me up on this.
Believe me, I have cut up a lot of flies. It has also taken me several tries to get things right on hundreds of flies. Watch a master tier at work and you will see what I mean.

Harry Lemire is one of the tiers I look up to. His flies are all perfect. He starts out with pre selected top notch materials and makes sure every step of the fly is perfect before moving on. He is seen as a master tier, and I have watched him tie in a wing, look at it, unwrap it, tie it again, look at it and then throw the wing out and start with a fresh one. His flies are perfect.

I am not saying that every fly has to be museum quality.
Many of mine are not.
Striving for high quality flies is just part of the whole fly fishing experience for me.
If a fly is supposed to look rough and tumble, so be it.
But if the wing on your fly is cocked to one side, the fly won't ride right and your confidence will wane. The fly won't be fished with confidence and there fore it will probably not catch fish.

I am especially adamant about these principles regarding steelhead flies.
Such a noble fish deserves the best flies we can tie.
It doesn't matter if the fly is a wooly bugger. If it is the best wooly bugger you can tie then it will show the respect due to these fish.

O.K. I'm done now.

[professori]

I fully support everything Fred has to say in his whole post (though I am far from the tyer he is.)

I don't have much disposable income, but good flies are worth it to me. High quality materials are easier to tie with as well.

On another slightly different note, when tying make sure you have enough of the material to make the job easier. Don't scrimp on materials. If you need a rib for instance, make sure you have an ample length to wrap on. There is nothing worse than trying to get 5 wraps out of 4 1/2 wraps of tinsel etc. You are much further ahead to snip off the extra 2 inches and have a perfect rib than try to tie it off right where it ends and have a rib that is o.k. or good enough.

The thing about this part is that using a decent amount of material is also cost effective. If you cut off enough ribbing material to tie one or two flies, you will have to clip off and discard an inch or two of ribbing when you complete your fly. So for every 2 flies say, you will be discarding 2" of ribbing material. If, on the other hand you clip off enough material to tie six or eight flies, you will be able to better handle the material while tying and you will only end up discarding 2" of ribbing every 6 or 8 flies. It will add up over time and save a few more hard earned pennies.

[knotnot]

Hi

Than you very much Fred , you are wise beyond your years.
I am starting to realize some differences in materials , more knowledge = more time spent in the craft.
Recently I have been given some Hallmark Chicken feathers (cape) from a friend who works there and a small bag of Whiting Farms hackle from dad.
So I have been trying to compare them with my A&N hackle and some from other Fly shops.
So the Hallmark was not really 'hallmark' quality and was promptly sent to the garbage. It was obvious that the short life of farm birds is horrible.
I gather Whiting Farms is expensive and have heard they are very proactive in happy healthy birds and being environmental.
But even to me with my limited skill the Whiting is easier to bend and tie and re-tie than the dollar per pound brand.

Thanks again for this thread Fred

knotnot

[phearless]

I thought that I would try and improve the learning curve for all of our newer tiers.
I went through the whole self taught route and made all the classic mistakes.
Probably some not so classic as well

Thanks for the back up prof. We both know how much better the tieing experience is as well when using good materials.

Just keep at it and you will get better. It is a great way to " go fishing "
without leaving the house.

[geoffvl]

I completely agree with you fred. I've been tying for only a year but I look at the flies I tied a year ago and most of them I'd never use. I guess I should just cut them up. I tied as many as I could as fast as I could then.

[Jinfoot]

I completely agree with you fred. I've been tying for only a year but I look at the flies I tied a year ago and most of them I'd never use. I guess I should just cut them up. I tied as many as I could as fast as I could then.

Thats exactly where im at i think, getting as many out as fast as i can even tho i know i need to slow it down its easy to get carried away lol. Did manage to get on a course thats 3 hours a night every Wednesday night for a month, this coming week is my 2nd night and it has been invaluable, awesome price to for the time/effort taken by the guys running it.

[SalaR]

Well said Fred...Balance and common sense is one of the better parts of fly tying....many times I will maneuver a new pattern under water to see it's flow and movement....a fly might look mighty but fish crappy.... Just experienced that on the Morice last week....fishing a series of GP's only to find a few of them to be lopsided,and therefore fishing poorly...it had nothing more to do with the fly other than the wing and tail weren't balanced so the movement through the water column produced a crazy moving thing!! Took the wing off one of the flies and next cast landed a small Dolly.
C

I am putting this thread up here for all the newer tyers on the site.
In another thread I said you can't tie first rate flies with second rate materials. Or as some have said, crap in, crap out.

I am a firm believer in using only the best materials for every fly I tie.
For instance, when I buy a bag of dyed mallard flank, I will empty it out on a table and separate all the wheat from the chafe. Believe it or not I will usually keep only 12 to 20 feathers from a whole bag. The rest is not worth tying with in my experience.

I don't have much disposable income, but good flies are worth it to me. High quality materials are easier to tie with as well.

Buying feathers I would rather get whole saddle patches or capes and pick them off the skin. Almost always better quality. I do have a fair collection of strung feathers as well, but I throw out a ton of those as well. The strung feathers are usually for costumes and such and the quality is lacking very often. Not consistent at all.

If at all possible I use materials from wild animals, legally procured of cours.
These are always of better quality than farm raised animals.
I dye materials myself and have stockpiles of feathers and hair etc.
One day I will use it all. It is great for horse trading as well.

On another slightly different note, when tying make sure you have enough of the material to make the job easier. Don't scrimp on materials. If you need a rib for instance, make sure you have an ample length to wrap on. There is nothing worse than trying to get 5 wraps out of 4 1/2 wraps of tinsel etc. You are much further ahead to snip off the extra 2 inches and have a perfect rib than try to tie it off right where it ends and have a rib that is o.k. or good enough. After every step you shouls be able to say perfect. If not unwrap that part and do it again. if that is not possible, cut the fly up and start over.

I am speaking from 25 years of tying experience, you may not believe me now, but one day you will look back and remember this and say yup, he was right. I am sure the experienced tiers from our forum will back me up on this.
Believe me, I have cut up a lot of flies. It has also taken me several tries to get things right on hundreds of flies. Watch a master tier at work and you will see what I mean.

Harry Lemire is one of the tiers I look up to. His flies are all perfect. He starts out with pre selected top notch materials and makes sure every step of the fly is perfect before moving on. He is seen as a master tier, and I have watched him tie in a wing, look at it, unwrap it, tie it again, look at it and then throw the wing out and start with a fresh one. His flies are perfect.

I am not saying that every fly has to be museum quality.
Many of mine are not.
Striving for high quality flies is just part of the whole fly fishing experience for me.
If a fly is supposed to look rough and tumble, so be it.
But if the wing on your fly is cocked to one side, the fly won't ride right and your confidence will wane. The fly won't be fished with confidence and there fore it will probably not catch fish.

I am especially adamant about these principles regarding steelhead flies.
Such a noble fish deserves the best flies we can tie.
It doesn't matter if the fly is a wooly bugger. If it is the best wooly bugger you can tie then it will show the respect due to these fish.

O.K. I'm done now.

[geoffvl]

"I am a firm believer in using only the best materials for every fly I tie.
For instance, when I buy a bag of dyed mallard flank, I will empty it out on a table and separate all the wheat from the chafe. Believe it or not I will usually keep only 12 to 20 feathers from a whole bag. The rest is not worth tying with in my experience."


I'm not an experienced fly tier so I'm wondering what a good mallard feather looks like and what a lousy one is? Does a lousy one curve lots?, or not stick together? I'm tying with some teal flank feathers right now.

[Jim Dingsdale]

This is an example of lousy flank feathers, or it's just me being a lousy tyer, yuck.
Hmmm! Is it tyer or tier?

[phearless]

Well, first of all a lot of the " flank " feathers are breast or other feathers mixed in.
Good feathers have-
no broken ends on them.
Are not twisted.
have pliable stems.
good colour.
larger size.
for some flies a feather that is all Left or Right are fine.
As in wings you can cut slips and match.

For collars a feather that is symmetrical is better.